The Hidden Abuse and Trauma of Growing Up Gay

 

Joe Kort (00:02)
All right, hello everybody. I’m Dr. Joe Court and welcome to Smart Sex, Smart Love, where talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. Today my guest is Ray Abel, a hypnotherapist, positivity coach, and the founder of Intuitive Mind Hypnosis. Ray specializes in helping people break free from anxiety, self-doubt, and deeply ingrained behavioral patterns by working directly with the subconscious mind. Much of

Ray’s work focuses on helping gay men who have spent years overthinking, second-guessing themselves, and trying to hold everything together on the outside while feeling anxious or disconnected on the inside. Through his work, Ray explores how early experiences, especially those shaped by shame, social conditioning, and identity, can wire patterns like people-pleasing, perfectionism, and hypervigilance into the nervous system. His approach is not about becoming someone new.

but about helping people feel safe enough to be who they already are. Today we are going to be talking about early life experiences and how they shape identity, how subconscious patterns influence relationships and attraction, and how hypnosis can be used as a tool to rewire those patterns and create real lasting change. Welcome Ray.

Ray Aubel (01:20)
Thanks Joe, I’m so happy to be here.

Joe Kort (01:23)
Yeah, I’m so happy to have you here. love your videos. We’ll be talking about those as well. He’s on Instagram. He’ll tell you how to find him, but that’s how I found you. They’re clear. They’re teachable. I mean, I feel like you’re doing such a great job. The pace is really good. So anyways, I’m glad that you agreed to come on the podcast.

Ray Aubel (01:41)
Thank you so much. Honestly, it’s a pleasure to be here, Joe. For real. Okay.

Joe Kort (01:45)
All right, thank you. right, so let’s get into the questions. ⁓ Tell

me a little bit about you and tell the audience about you and what got you into this work, into the hypnosis specifically.

Ray Aubel (01:55)
⁓ Well, you know, I sort of went through a depression during ⁓ COVID and I was a realtor back then and I was, ⁓ you know, really struggling with being in the house and I sort of ⁓ went on my own journey ⁓ with hypnosis after

you know years of being in and out of therapy and ⁓ I really felt that it really was that extra step that I sort of needed to get me there and I sort of just wanted to change my life and help other people that were similar in similar situations to myself.

Joe Kort (02:38)
That’s really great. have had some hypnosis training, but not a lot. Nothing, I mean, not just enough to understand it. So that people probably don’t, who don’t understand it, can you explain just how does it work?

Ray Aubel (02:44)
huh.

Um, it’s nothing as woo woo and as crazy as you see in the movies, right? You know, you’re not going to be the Manchurian candidate and kill the president, although it might not be such a bad thing in this, this, this president. But, um, you know, it’s really nothing that crazy. It’s just sort of a quieting down of your sort of conscious critical thinking. So you could sort of get to sort of deeper, deeper places and, and, um, yeah.

Joe Kort (02:54)
Right, right.

Ray Aubel (03:18)
So that’s basically what it is, quieting down of the mind and getting directly to be able to work on the subconscious mind.

Joe Kort (03:25)
and then specifically how does hypnosis do that because there’s mindfulness right there’s all these different other interventions what’s what does hypnosis specifically do

Ray Aubel (03:32)
⁓ You can have similar results. I mean, it could be similar to like, you know, envisioning, imagining, ⁓ you know, that kind of stuff. ⁓ But, you know, it’s really like you go through this process. The first part of the session is called the induction. Okay, that gets you into a relaxed, calm, peaceful sort of place. And ⁓ then the second part is working on the subject matter.

Okay, ⁓ so, you know, it could be tons of different things that you wanna work on. You wanna work on people pleasing, self-sabotaging behaviors. You wanna work on your anxiety. ⁓ I have a whole course that I do that really focuses on, ⁓ the first part is sort of dealing with the issue side of it, and then the second part of the course is sort of on a more positive note, like where do we wanna go after we’ve sort of dealt with the issue side of it.

Joe Kort (04:28)
Wow, all right. And how does it shift something that has been ingrained for years?

Ray Aubel (04:33)
Okay, you know, patterns are patterns because we keep doing them over and over again. When you actively take steps to change a pattern, it starts developing new pathways in the mind, in the brain, and even in the body. ⁓ You know,

when we start doing something over and over again, that starts to become the new pattern. So there’s a lot of patterning work that we’re doing as well as the hypnosis sessions, and there’s stuff that you have to do, practice ⁓ daily to make that the new pattern.

Joe Kort (05:13)
Yeah, help me understand this if you would. I’m just thinking about people that are skeptical. I used to be, I’m not exactly, because I know it can be helpful, especially with smoking. I remember when I was getting training, they said that’s the most success, right? It’s helping people stop.

Ray Aubel (05:17)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yes, that’s what it’s most widely known for.

Joe Kort (05:29)
But what

about, were, my husband and I were on a cruise and there was this hypnotist, he was an entertainer, and he’d bring people up from the audience and he would hypnotize them on stage, like there’d be 10 of them or whatever, and they would, whatever he would do, we were watching him, and then suddenly they’d be hypnotized and you would think, are they lying, are they acting, and what would you say to that? Have you seen those kind of shows?

Ray Aubel (05:35)
Hmm.

and well.

Yeah.

See you soon.

I have, I have, and you know what? It’s hard for me to really say, I don’t really engage in stage hypnosis or anything like that, but it really is, it’s sort of an expectancy that you have. It’s almost like if you believe that someone is going to help you or guide you, or it’s the belief that this person is capable of doing it, and it’s more,

It’s more that you’re allowing this process to happen than someone actually doing something to you. So it’s fun. It’s exciting. People want to go along with it. you know, that’s what I believe is how the stage hypnosis mainly works. But again, I don’t really know personally because I don’t do stage hypnosis.

Joe Kort (06:28)
Mm-hmm.

I just always wondered if there was, is it similar? So you don’t know, but like, so let’s say I come in and I want to change something about myself, my eating habits, so I lose weight or something. What would happen? I’d sit down for that first appointment and what would you do?

Ray Aubel (06:44)
you

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, I have the first session is a is an anchoring session and a pattern interrupt Okay, so you can be you can be used for weight loss It could be used for any kind of negative thoughts that are entering your headspace. Okay, so ⁓ Let’s just go with ⁓ I’m not enough right? That’s a popular one. I’m not handsome enough rich enough. Whatever enough, right? ⁓ We’re going to whenever you have a negative thought we’re gonna do something

First we do the session and we link a feeling of calmness. Okay, we all have a well of calmness inside of us somewhere. Okay, and so we’re just really reconnecting with that. And I call it your calm control because it really is a form of control when you’re able to sort of self-regulate. Okay, and so we’re building that muscle or we’re building new neural pathways in the brain doing this. Okay, so we do the session, we link a feeling of calmness. Now…

you’re going to practice that for the entire six weeks because it takes six weeks to build a habit. Okay? So, ⁓ we’re going to whenever we have the negative thought that we don’t want, whether it’s wanting to eat, in your case, if you want to lose weight, we’re going to say, we’re going to pattern interrupt, we’re going to take a few deep breaths, we’re going to connect with our inner well of calm, and we’re going to give ourselves the opposite of whatever that negative thought is.

Okay? And the idea here is to after six weeks, this becomes a habit now. You almost automatically are doing these things after forcing yourself to do it for a certain amount of time. Okay? So that becomes the new pattern. Now that’s really the first session. Should I get into all the sessions now? Yeah. Okay. So that’s the first session, anchoring and pattern interrupt. It’s something for you to use.

Joe Kort (08:35)
Mm-hmm.

Please, I’d love it. Yes, yes, yes.

Ray Aubel (08:49)
in the moment when you’re feeling anything negative that you don’t want. The second session now is an age regression session. This is another thing that is well known. You’ve heard of past life regression? When you visit past life, this is age regression. So we’re visiting moments in your childhood, events in your past that are contributing to whatever the current issue or problems are. ⁓

And so really just visiting and revisiting and going over these moments, it’s really like cathartic to the subconscious mind. And it allows you to release and let go from things that are deeply ingrained in this sort of like other kind of way that you don’t really have. You know, when you’re doing this subconsciously, just sort of, it’s hard to explain fully how it works. It just sort of works.

And that takes us to the third session, which is the releasing, an actual releasing and letting go session. So you get ⁓ some of the benefit just from getting to the root of it. So we usually visit three ⁓ events in your past that are contributing. The earliest event is the root, and then the other two events are ⁓ contributing factors. Like whatever negative thing that you learned about yourself, that by the way is not true. ⁓

there were contributing moments and these are moments that sort of stick out in your mind. And what’s beautiful about this is, you know, I’m not diagnosing you. This information is coming from your subconscious mind. So it’s so powerful when the answers are really within, right? ⁓ So the first part of that is gaining that awareness, okay? When you gain that awareness, if you’re not aware of where things started and what the problem really is, how can you really fully

Joe Kort (10:31)
Yes.

Ray Aubel (10:44)
fight back at it, you know? So that’s the, so then, yeah, I went back a little. But, so the third session is the releasing and letting go session. And in that session, you’re gonna release and let go from everything that came up in the regression, as well as anything that we’re holding on to, any negative space we’re holding on to. We’re gonna sort of just release and let go ⁓ from it. And I’ll tell you, people feel like they’ve dropped a bag of bricks.

Joe Kort (10:45)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Ray Aubel (11:14)
You know, it’s very heavy. It feels very heavy to move through life when there’s a lot of mental baggage weighing you down. So, you know, when you let go through this process and the subconscious works in metaphor, just look at your dreams, you know. Your dreams don’t make sense, but if you analyze them, and that’s another session that you can do, you can do dream analysis sessions.

Joe Kort (11:24)
Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (11:42)
where we analyze a recurring dream. Your dreams are sort of your subconscious trying to reach out to you and tell you something from deep within.

Joe Kort (11:50)
I love that.

Wait, I want to repeat that. That’s so good. Your dreams are trying to reach out to you and tell you about something within. That’s really well said.

Ray Aubel (11:59)
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. ⁓ So those are the three sessions, dealing with the issue side of it. The next three sessions are more sort of empowering and positive. We can work on certain behavioral patterns such as people pleasing and self-sabotage, but most of them are more focused on the positive part. Like we can work on confidence, ⁓ self-trust, self-esteem, self-

⁓ Acceptance. You put self in front of a word and something positive after it. We can work on all of those things. Okay? I also do sessions that do get a little bit woo-woo like connecting to inner guidance and you know, trusting the spirit within or connecting to higher self. So and the second set of three sessions, really you can design them exactly how you want them. Whatever you’re needing in the moment, we can

Joe Kort (12:35)
Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (12:57)
I will make a session specifically towards your needs for those last three sessions. You can tell me, Ray, I feel this way and that way and blah, blah, blah, And I’ll make a session specifically just tailored to your needs in the moment. ⁓ So those are the six sessions. In addition to the six sessions, I also ⁓ keep in touch with you like a coach through email or ⁓ through the Instagram chat, because I meet a lot of clients through Instagram.

⁓ And I want to know how you’re doing after the session. Is anything still coming up? ⁓ Did you ever fight with someone at work? Is your partner upset at you? You know, I’m sort of there to sort of hold your hand through this six-week process, okay? ⁓ And to ask my advice and whatever, you know, ⁓ talk about things that you want to talk about. ⁓ The next thing that you get is a audio track, which is a self-hypnosis, which is all about picturing a future version of yourself.

Okay, the idea is that we have to have a positive version of where we want to move towards, otherwise, you know, what the hell are we doing? Right? You know, so every single night, and I like people to listen to it before bed, because, you know, normally us over thinkers and over analytical minds at nighttime, that’s when we do our best work, right? So we want to refocus that energy to the positive that we want to bring into our future.

Joe Kort (14:15)
Yes.

Ray Aubel (14:21)
and have it right in the forefront of our minds, like every single day. ⁓ And the idea with that is to practice it every day for the six weeks and to now when your head hits the pillow, you start naturally thinking, boy, what do I want to bring into my life in the future that’s positive? And that becomes your new default setting. ⁓ And then ⁓ the last thing is I sort of…

Joe Kort (14:38)
Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (14:46)
⁓ I like to keep an open line of communication with my clients. So as an aftercare plan, I still respond to three messages a month. And that’s basically the whole program.

Joe Kort (14:58)
That’s so

helpful to understand the arc. like, so now it’s so much sounds like therapy or even like another kind of EMDR, like what I do. But do you have them close their eyes? Are they in an altered state? Like what happens?

Ray Aubel (15:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, they definitely do their eyes closed. ⁓ I believe that, you know, and I question actually therapy, traditional therapy forms that they’re not done sometimes with the eyes closed. Because when our eyes are open, you know, we’re interpreting everything we’re seeing. I see your microphone, your glasses, your hair, your this, your that, you know, and we’re making judgments. It, closing your eyes shuts that all down, right? And we can get to deeper places with the eyes closed. Sorry. ⁓

Joe Kort (15:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (15:40)
And so, you know, we do it with the eyes closed, we get into a relaxed state, and then it’s almost like it’s the closest thing I know to magic, honestly. ⁓ And it just, it sort of works. It just sort of works.

Joe Kort (15:49)
Mm-hmm.

So there’s

nothing you do that make them like a breathing technique or some kind of a, you know how you see on TV, they’re snapping. Okay, now you are hypnotized. It’s not like that.

Ray Aubel (15:58)
Bye.

Yeah, no, it’s not like that. That’s again, that’s that’s like stage hypnosis stuff where it’s immediately okay, they shake the hand and they pull it and the people are I don’t Right. No, it’s not like that at all. It’s it’s you know, like coaching It’s like coaching and I use I call myself a positivity coach and I use hypnosis or hypnotherapy as my modality for change

Joe Kort (16:10)
Yeah, right. I just want people to hear that it’s not like that, right?

No, I think that’s great and I know that you also focus a lot of your work with gay men and I wondered what made you decide to do that? Was there something particular about the population that you thought there’s an interest here and I want to meet that interest?

Ray Aubel (16:40)
Absolutely. ⁓ First of all, I think that having perspective is so important when you’re working with people. And for me to be the best person, to work with another person that’s gay, I feel like that was so important. And I see so many gay people struggling. I grew up in Long Island, 20 minutes from New York City, so I was always in and out of the city.

Then I moved there when I was old enough to and, ⁓ you know, fortunately that is like a Mecca for gay people. So I’ve been able to see so many people throughout the years and I have friendships for 20 plus years and, you know, I see all the things that we struggle as a population, gay men, you know. And it’s not just gay men. really, you the whole LGBTQ plus community, I really try to work with. just, you know, I find that, you know, I don’t try to…

Joe Kort (17:14)
Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (17:35)
pretend I know what a trans person’s experience is so I can really only speak to a gay man’s experience so that’s why my main focus is with gay men. But I really try to work with the entire ⁓ LGBTQ plus community.

Joe Kort (17:44)
Mm-hmm.

You know, I think about this only because of the Supreme Court, you know, overturning the ban on conversion therapy, right? Do you ever have somebody come to you and say, I really want to use hypnosis to help me not be gay? Have you ever had someone like that?

Ray Aubel (17:55)
us.

⁓

I have and I tell them that I can’t because ⁓ You know, you can’t change who you really are You can’t be me and even if part of you wants to be hidden, you know, there is another part of you inside that is, you know just Dying to come out, you know, and so I wouldn’t want to I feel like that’s counterintuitive and I wouldn’t work with someone like that and in fact, I won’t work with

If you can’t see a positive version of yourself, then I really can’t work with you because you have to be able to see it. If you can’t see where you want to go, I can’t guide you towards nothing, you know? I can’t guide you towards what you can’t see. So I would implore, like if I met with someone and they were like, well, boy, I really can’t see where I want to go to. I would say, well, you know, take some time and think about that.

And then maybe we’ll talk again when you have a more clear vision or version of where you want to move towards.

Joe Kort (19:04)
I like what

you’re saying and I know that if somebody came in, if we stand this whole conversion therapy thing only because it’s up right now with the ban overturned, but they might say, well my positive version of myself is that I’m straight. You know, and we have zero research, all of the research shows, zero results are that you can’t turn somebody straight. It’s all, they all have 100 % recidivism rates. ⁓ But they might say that to you, right? They might say, well my vision is to be heterosexual.

Ray Aubel (19:32)
Well, I would just say that, you know, you could find somebody, another hypnotherapist that would do that, you know, but I’m not doing it. Exactly. Yeah.

Joe Kort (19:39)
Uh-huh. Right, right, right. And it’s unethical, right? So we’d say that too. Yeah. And

so now, I found you because you work with gay men, but you were talking about the model that I developed in the 80s called covert cultural sexual abuse. And I was like, my God. And I think you reached out to me. You wanted to know the journal articles I’d written in. And ⁓ I continued to write about it in my own books. didn’t continue in journal articles because it wasn’t really being picked up. didn’t…

Ray Aubel (19:58)
I did.

Joe Kort (20:08)
People therapists would understand it when I would teach it but then it would just sort of die off and then you came along and you were like my god, I totally get this. So tell me what I meant about it not that gay people have been sexually abused but the over sexualization of children the Over sexualization of what it means to be gay when somebody hears that I’m gay. They don’t hear gay They hear sex they hear adult sex and if they’re a man, they usually hear a man over let’s say 45

Ray Aubel (20:26)
you

Joe Kort (20:35)
but belt buckles to the floor let’s get busy they don’t hear that i’m just telling you who i am in terms of my identity so that’s where i came up with that ⁓ term in the whole model but tell me what resonated for you about it

Ray Aubel (20:42)
Right.

Well, you know, I read your book and it was like, like, this is what I’ve been talking about. This is what I’ve been working on with clients. And this guy, Joe Court, put a name to it. Why isn’t this out in the world? This needs to be, you know, awareness needs to be brought to this topic because it’s just like, you know, gay kids are just left.

to figure it out on their own. And that is a form of abuse. You grow up thinking that you’re the only one that’s this way and something’s wrong with you and you’re bad. Then when you start hearing things in the ether, whether they’re said directly to you or about other people who are gay, you start connecting dots. Well, I better not be that thing that everybody hates, you know? And yeah, I get it that these religious people who are doing conversion therapy aren’t gonna tell their kids about

Joe Kort (21:18)
I know.

Ray Aubel (21:46)
gay people when they’re children. But even progressive people do not tell their ch- generally speaking, of course, do not really tell their children that gay people exist. It’s, you know, we’re 10 % of the population. You know, what if we decided to say, ⁓ you know what, there’s no left-handed people, okay? And if you’re using your left hand or your b- and it was at one point. Left-handedness was very frowned upon.

Joe Kort (22:11)
Right.

Yes, they would try to make you right-handed. Yeah.

Ray Aubel (22:16)
And

this is like a natural, and this is something that’s in over 1,500 plus species exhibit homosexual behaviors, you know? So this is not something that’s like out of nowhere, you know? And throughout history, there have been all these gay characters throughout history. It’s almost like in this last century, sorry, the one that passed, ⁓ you know, is that it’s become this huge issue, you know? ⁓

So, yeah.

Joe Kort (22:47)
Well, I

came up with it because I was seeing so many people that were sexually abused, and then I would see all these LGBT people who weren’t, but they exhibited the same symptoms. They felt like they were carrying a sexual secret. I always say, I’m a gay guy, but if I never have sex with another man for the rest of my life, I’m still a gay guy. And they would have the imposter syndrome and short relationships, over-sexualizing, repressing, all the symptoms were there. And then, like,

Ray Aubel (23:15)
Yeah.

Joe Kort (23:16)
you said you’ve had people say I’m lying and I’ve had it said to me, you’re saying all people have been gay, people have been sexually abused. No, I am saying though that there’s a sexual trauma and there’s an over sexualization that does impact us and you’re agreeing with that.

Ray Aubel (23:31)
Absolutely. ⁓ And this is what people are coming to me for and they’re naming it all different things. But if you could take an umbrella and put them all under it, they would all fit under this covert cultural sexual abuse umbrella. ⁓

Joe Kort (23:46)
Yes. Yeah.

No, I’m so glad that that resonated for you. ⁓ A lot of people think that what, go ahead.

Ray Aubel (23:54)
I was just gonna say, I think that if you’re a therapist or a coach working with LGBTQ plus people and you don’t know about this, you’re boy, you’re really doing a disservice to these people. I think that your book should be literally like the Bible for caring for people who are LGBTQ plus. mean, it’s. No, no, no.

Joe Kort (24:16)
Thank you. Let’s make sure people don’t think I paid you to say that because I didn’t. But

I do think that Bessel van der Kock said something. He does a lot of trauma work and PTSD. And he said, you don’t understand how somebody’s organized their lives around their trauma, then you’re not going to be able to help them no matter what you do because you’ve got to get in there and figure out how that happened to them and what they’re doing. And you’re seeing that.

Ray Aubel (24:40)
Yes, absolutely. It’s mind boggling when, you know, and so many of my clients, they feel like they’re the only person that feels this way. And it’s just, it’s cause we’re all quiet about it. Nobody’s talking about how terrible it really was being a completely different person inside than what you were putting out, you know? That creates, you know, you’re living out of…

Joe Kort (24:55)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (25:08)
your authenticity, you’re living out of integrity, you know, and then all of sudden one day you come out and everything is supposed to just fall into place. No, it doesn’t, you know, and…

Joe Kort (25:20)
I call that dust bunnies in the closet, right? So now they come out, but all the other crap that went in that closet. So how do you help people understand that with your clients?

Ray Aubel (25:22)
Yeah.

Well, what we do is we go through that process. We give them something to use in the moment whenever negative thoughts are coming in to squash that. They practice it every day because a lot of it actually is, you know, it’s this pattern, right? We can intellectually understand what we’re doing and why we need to change and do, but then we’re back doing the same old behaviors.

Joe Kort (25:54)
Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (25:54)
And

because we need that subconscious re-patterning and re-conditioning in order to get us to get to the goal part of it.

Joe Kort (26:05)
Yeah, that’s good. You really build on people’s strengths is what you’re saying. You help them override ⁓ what they might perceive as a weakness and help them stay in their strength.

Ray Aubel (26:15)
Yeah, you know, it’s funny too. Sometimes people are like, boy, know, this hypervigilance and, you know, scanning and all this, this has really helped me in business. And if I work on myself this way, am I going to lose this? My advantage? You know, some people consider it a superpower, you know. I say absolutely not. You are still going to be able to use this

Joe Kort (26:34)
Yeah. What do you say to people? That’s a great question.

Ray Aubel (26:44)
for positive reasons. But how it’s negatively affecting you, you’re gonna drop that. You’re not just all of a sudden gonna forget these things that have helped you in life. They’re part of your skill set now, even though they’re born out of a lot of trauma and negativity.

Joe Kort (27:04)
Because really what you’re doing is helping it not interfere with their life. So if it works at work, it’s going to keep working. But if it’s interfering in another part, that’s going to go away. Right. I love that. What else? I just took it from what you said. What else before we come to an end, what would you like people to know about you? Like anything we didn’t talk about that you’re like, you know what? This one thing would be important.

Ray Aubel (27:13)
Absolutely. I couldn’t have been better myself,

Just like, you know, I was, you know, I was very much like the people that I help right now. And, you know, I felt very alone in feeling that way. And I really feel that bringing awareness to this and, you know, putting it on social media. I mean, the people, the comments are just, you know, thank you so much for bringing this. This is how I felt for years and I’ve…

I’ve never expressed it to people, you know, the closest people to you, if they’re straight, most of the time you don’t talk about it. You don’t want to be a burden. You don’t want to be looked down upon like, you know, something’s wrong with me and I’m this hurt person who’s experienced trauma. I get a lot of comments also from people that, you’re whining. You know, other gay men telling me I’m whining about this. I’m trying to connect with people who are

Joe Kort (28:20)
Mm-hmm.

Ray Aubel (28:25)
having trauma so I could help them. I’m not complaining about this. Anyway, can’t make everybody happy.

Joe Kort (28:27)
Yes, I know. Right. You know that that’s just you can’t and that’s their projection of how they felt

about themselves and their whatever. But it’s not about you. You’re doing great work. I love to watch your videos. Every time I see one, I stop and you’re you’re like a really good teacher. You’ve got like things to visuals, you know, as you count down the five top things or whatever. And yeah, I love it. I’m like I’m just watching. And it’s just very clear and ⁓ and direct. And I’m glad to have.

Ray Aubel (28:46)
Take your blocks.

Joe Kort (28:56)
found you and glad that you came on my podcast.

Ray Aubel (28:59)
Well, gosh, I mean, I’m in awe of that. All I did was read your book and message you about how wonderful it was. then this weeks later, months later now, I guess, and I’m here on your podcast. So thank you so much. I’m really honored and privileged to be here for real. Ray.Aubel, A-U-B-E-L, ⁓ at Instagram.

Joe Kort (29:16)
Yeah.

Same to everyone, tell people how they can find you.

Ray Aubel (29:28)
Facebook or TikTok. ⁓

Joe Kort (29:31)
All right. And when we

post this, we’ll make sure that we put those links to you as well. All right. Thank you. And Ray, it was such a pleasure to have you on my show. And those of you that are watching, you could always hear more of my podcast if you go to SmartSexSmartLove.com. But you can also follow me on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube and Facebook. And my handle is at Dr. Joe Court. D-R-J-O-E-K-O-R-T. Thanks for listening. And until next time, stay safe and stay healthy.