Step into your most authentic self

JOE KORT 0:04
Welcome to Smart sex smart love, we’re talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. My guest today is Ray McDaniel, a non binary speaker, author, therapist, certified sex therapist, coach and transgender diversity and inclusion educator. Ray helps audiences gain the sheer audacity to be themselves in the world through play pleasure and possibility. Their book gender magic lives shamelessly reclaim your joy and step into your most authentic self is a first of its kind Practical Guide to achieving gender freedom with joy, curiosity and pleasure for transgender and non binary individuals, gender explorers and those who love them. Ray has been featured in high profile media such as the New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, time and women’s health as a sought after professional speaker. They have spoken at Rutgers University, University of Chicago, University of Illinois, Chicago, Soho House, the wing and Rachael Rogers ROI, The Millionaire Summit. Ray is also the founder of practical audacity, a gender and sex therapy practice in Chicago, serving more than 550 clients annually. When raise and educating audiences and bettering the world, they can be found drinking too much coffee, snuggling with their dog gizmo, who might actually be a gremlin or sipping whiskey with a good book. I love that. Welcome, Ray.

Rae McDaniel 1:30
I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

JOE KORT 1:33
Oh, yeah, it’s so nice to have you here. I’ve just known you for a while. And we have your book. And we thought before you start, if you could educate my listeners when you say non binary and transgender, what the differences are, and just so they have a working understanding?

Rae McDaniel 1:48
Absolutely. So transgender is an umbrella term. So non binary is kind of situated under the umbrella of trans or transgender, trans simply meaning again, on the other side as so if you are born, the doctor says it’s a boy, and you grew up and say, well, that doesn’t really feel like it fits, then you are trans. For some folks, that means that you are a binary trans individual, meaning that you were born, the doctor says it’s a boy, you grow up and say no, actually, I am a woman, non binary, what that means. And how I identify is that I was born, the doctor says it’s a girl and I grew up and that was generally kind of fine for a while. And then it felt like it was too limiting of a an identity for me. But I don’t identify as a man. So I identify somewhere very firmly in the middle of the gender spectrum. They’re now non binary. And there are lots of words that people might use to describe not being on a binary gender spectrum. But for that’s what it means for me. Other people might define that slightly differently with a little bit more fluidity. And there’s, you know, a million ways that you can identify your gender. So that clears it up a bit.

JOE KORT 3:11
Oh, yeah. I’m so glad you said that at the end. Because as a therapist, and I tell therapists, this you can’t assume you know, even when someone comes in and says they’re gay, lesbian, bisexual, you have to ask them what that means for them. Because everybody has their own definition. That’s personal. Absolutely. So then it’s I also want to be clear with people do this, just because someone says they’re nine non binary doesn’t mean they’re automatically means that they’re trans.

Rae McDaniel 3:34
Well, it kind of depends on the person. So a lot of people who are non binary also identify with the term trans. Now, there are some people who the term trans or transgender doesn’t really feel like it fits for them, and they don’t want that term applied to them. So just like what you were saying, it’s always best to to ask.

JOE KORT 3:56
Yes, yes. Great. Thank you so much. So with that cleared up, we’ll move right into the first question I want to make sure I ask you about is just tell us about your work as a therapist, coach, and transgender diversity and inclusion educator.

Rae McDaniel 4:09
Absolutely. So I have been working with LGBTQ folks from day one of my career, and developed a specialty along the way in sex therapy and working with trans folks. And where gender magic my my first book comes from, is that I was looking for resources that didn’t just focus on the suffering of trans individuals. Now, obviously, that is important. There are a lot of risk factors there. We can’t ignore that or the world that we live in. But I also was really seeing my clients find a lot of joy and pleasure in being their authentic selves. But I wasn’t finding the resources on how we as therapists can work with trans folks in a way that does center The the pleasure, the joy and all the good stuff that comes from being able to be yourself and the world. So I created the resource myself, but it came from many years of working with trans folks and trying to figure out what is a path forward, where we can fundamentally reframe the conversation about trans identity, and what it means to go on that journey in a way that doesn’t always center suffering. I

JOE KORT 5:31
love love, love this, I you know, I do a lot of tick tock videos. And if I talk about suffering, and victimhood and problematic proud issues for anybody, my videos do well, if I talk about fun and pleasure and the kinds of stuff you’re talking about in your book. And now, I don’t get that many views. Why do you think that is? Why do people want to focus on our suffering? Only?

Rae McDaniel 5:53
Well, I think we can’t ignore also the algorithm that pushes those types of things. You know, we live in a social media world where, you know, things like the the suffering, the the negative stuff gets more views, partly because the platform’s push those things, I find that in real life, people are hungry for that, that focus on joy, that focus on pleasure, it feels like a breath of fresh air to them. And when they do find those those resources online, they they mean, a lot of folks, even if the algorithm doesn’t always reward that sort of content.

JOE KORT 6:35
Yeah, no, thank you for for that. And you remind me a lot of the work of Lucy Fielding, where she talks about sexual self suffering, she rather talk about that, in addition to sexual pleasure, like you’re doing? Absolutely,

Rae McDaniel 6:47
Lucy is a good friend of mine. And our work is so so symbiotic. And we talked back and forth a lot about the very beginnings of the gender freedom model, which is what gender magic my book is based on, and how symbiotic our work is together. So yeah, everybody grabbed her book as well.

JOE KORT 7:09
Yes. So what led you to this profession, you know, you could have done a lot of things to make, to make to input into the world around this, why this profession? Well,

Rae McDaniel 7:17
I was in undergrad, and I started taking psychology classes. And it just made sense to me. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed learning about people, it was really fascinating to me, and at the same time, so I grew up in the Deep South. And I wasn’t out as queer and non binary at this point in my life. But I still was queer non binary is hadn’t realized it yet. But all of my friends, shocker as so many of us latently queer folks, we’re all the gay kids on campus, specifically the theater kids. And I was at a very, very conservative Christian College and East Texas, where you could get expelled for being gay. And so I was with my friends who were exploring their identity, who were coming to terms with, with being gay with being queer, navigating that and this really oppressive culture and situation where they could, you know, get expelled, navigating that with their families navigating there, their love lives and their sex lives. And I saw how much of a struggle it was for them. And I decided that I wanted to be a therapist, specifically to work with the LGBTQ population, right then in there. So that was my intention from day one of graduate school. That’s

JOE KORT 8:41
awesome. You remind me of myself, I was in therapy at 14 because I was isolating and almost I wasn’t actively suicidal. But I know I was moving in that direction. My mother put me in therapy. And at 14 I started talking about being gay. It was like 1977. And that inspired my work to that we’re so we’re twins in that way? Absolutely.

Rae McDaniel 8:58
I think so many therapists, the work that they get into is had something connected to their own personal identities and discoveries and struggles. And totally, that’s a beautiful thing.

JOE KORT 9:11
So tell us about your book.

Rae McDaniel 9:13
What is it about gender magic is a book that people assume is about gender transition. And the title of the introduction is transition isn’t the point because it isn’t really about gender transition. It is about gender freedom, which is a topic that is relevant, of course for trans and non binary folks, and the book was written to them and about them, but also for not only allies, but cisgender. Folks who want to put a little bit more intention on how do I name my gender? How do I live that out? And ultimately, am I living my life in a way that is truly authentic to me? So is a hopeful look at what does gender for Freedom. I mean, how can we achieve that for ourselves with a lot of practical guidance in there, along with some really key mindset shifts that have been very helpful for my clients and allies alike for many years of my work?

JOE KORT 10:16
I’m so glad you talked about that in your book. And I recommend people to read your book about this, because a lot of people still say, Well, wait a minute, if you’re not doing hormone therapy, and you’re not doing, you know, any kind of surgeries, or, you know, I don’t understand how you can say you’re trans. So you explain that, is that right?

Rae McDaniel 10:31
Absolutely I do. There is a very medical model of what it means to be trans. And there are a lot of people that that model doesn’t really fit for them, either. They can’t medically transition for many reasons, or they don’t want to, I’ll use myself as an example, again, as a non binary person, I’ve had top surgery. So I’ve had a double mastectomy, I’ve been on testosterone in the past, I’m not currently on it. And that felt like it aligned with my gender for me. But someone can be non binary and not do any of those things. All trans means is that you are born, the doctor said, You’re, you’re a boy, or you’re a girl, and you grow up and say, that doesn’t feel like it fits. And then you get to decide how you want to live out your life based on that fact, in whatever way you want. But that doesn’t change the fundamental fact that the doctor said, You are this, and you grew up and say, Actually, that’s not me.

JOE KORT 11:36
I love it. You’re so positive, even in this interview, you know, and I’m sure it’s Joe’s through the book as well. But I just want people to have this positivity they need what you’re saying is rather the sufferings important. We can’t forget that. But but this this positive pleasure fun part is also important. Like you’re saying, exactly,

Rae McDaniel 11:54
you know, if suffering is at the very core of the trans experience, what do we have to look forward to? What are we moving towards? And fundamentally, my work isn’t yet about trans people. It’s about the fact that I think the world is better when we all get to be our authentic selves, free from fear and shame. And I happen to be talking about that through the lens of gender freedom.

JOE KORT 12:21
So that’s so well said, I love that. What inspired you to write the book?

Rae McDaniel 12:25
Well, like I said, a little bit earlier, I was doing therapy with trans folks for many years, and I was looking for resources about how can I do this work in a way that helps my clients from day one, have an easier time of it? Is there a way that looking at someone’s gender and exploring that at maybe transitioning if that’s something that people want to do, can be done in a way that doesn’t feel like a slog through the mud. And I found some things, but not everything that I wanted and a resource and not a clear model for how to do that. And so like many authors, my my impetus to write gender magic was that I wanted a book that didn’t exist. And so I wrote it.

JOE KORT 13:16
I love that, you know, I have to say the more people taught started talking about trans and coming out. I never thought it was trans. I mean, as a little boy, gay boys do this. I was pretending to be a girl, I would pretend to be Cher Dinah Ross or whatever. But the more people started talking about trans the more I started affirming my own masculinity, my own manhood, which I never could do, because little Joey was always a little fat boy a little. You know what I mean? Like sissy. Lon Jewish was Jewish. And I think I took that all the way into my 50s. And then suddenly, I’m like, wait a minute, I like being male. And I enjoy it. But the trans movement really helped me like people always so worried, oh, you’re gonna wake up one day and want to be trans? No, I woke up one day and claimed my masculinity. Exactly,

Rae McDaniel 14:02
exactly. That is the core of what I’m talking about, that this conversation about gender freedom is not just for trans folks, it is for all of us. Because we all are given a manual of what it means to be the gender we were assigned at birth, that doesn’t always feel like it fits. And there’s so much about gender that is automatically put on us and so many people cisgender folks included, don’t have the opportunity to say, Well, how do I want to show up in the world? What does masculinity mean to me? And maybe part of my masculinity is dressing up as Cher and Diana Ross and that’s part of who I am as a cisgender man. Yes. And I think that’s a beautiful thing.

JOE KORT 14:51
Yeah, no, thank you. That’s so you’re so well spoken about all this. And so, in your book, you do provide those practical tools to align gender identity An expression with a person’s most authentic self, would you give us some examples of those tools and why you find them effective?

Rae McDaniel 15:07
Absolutely. So one of my favorite tools in the book I stole from probably many people. But specifically this version of it, I took from somebody who’s in a totally different field. And I call it the 10. Year and the future letter. And what it is, I love its beauty. And its simplicity, which is simply you are to write a letter to yourself of today, from the you 10 years in the future. So you 10 years in the future, are writing a letter to who you are today. And all you do in this letter is you describe from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed with as much sensory detail as you possibly can. So this is, you know, what are what kind of sheets Do you have? What do you eat for breakfast? What are you doing in your job, who is in your life? And those kind of basic questions. But beyond that, also talking about? How am I showing up in the world? How am I presenting what am I wearing? What’s my hair leg? Do I have that Tuesday have piercings, to have kids. And I love this, because yes, gender is in there. But more importantly, we’re situating that within the broader concepts, context of your life, and what you want for your life. And that piece, it it’s magic. And it’s amazing, because there’s nothing you do with this letter other than you read it. And I tell people to read it maybe once a week for a few months, and then maybe once a month, and you don’t do anything else. But what I find is that after a few months of reading this letter, you naturally start to align your life with the person that you imagine yourself to be 10 years in the future. And that is the sort of gentle hey, let’s think and vision about who we want to be. And let’s take really tiny steps that are not too stressful, maybe a little risky, but not too stressful. And we start to align ourselves in that way that kind of epitomizes my entire approach, which is, hey, let’s not worry about step 10. Let’s worry about what is step one right in front of you. And step one is, Do I like this? Do I am I curious about it? Let’s experiment with that. And then you just build on that.

JOE KORT 17:46
I like it because it reminds me I’m an Imago relationship therapist. And in that model, we have a relationship vision that we ask people to write out that talks about what they want to be like in the future. So it’s the same idea, but you’re talking yourself from the future. That’s a great tool. Thank

Rae McDaniel 18:03
you. Thank you. And yes, so many people have used a similar tool and so many ways. I just think it’s really effective. The other thing I do a lot I kind of hinted at with this is what I call tiny step experiments, which is a lot of folks who are starting to explore their gender, get very caught up in thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking and trying to figure out what is step 10 before they take a single step forward. And we know that that is not generally the way that human development works. It’s not really how our brains work. What we learn a lot from is taking a step toward something we think we want. What this means in practice, it might mean somebody who is exploring their gender and decides that they want to wear a dress to brunch, and that is a scary thing for them to do. So maybe tiny step one is not wearing a dress, maybe tiny step one is finding a blouse that feels good. And getting a partner or a friend to take your dog for a walk around the block with you. And this blouse. And then you assess how did that feel? Do I feel supported? Do I feel relatively safe? Am I able to assess for safety? Do I want to maybe go to the grocery store and this blouse and you just build out from there? Instead of saying, Okay, I’m gonna think for six months about whether or not I want to wear a dress to brunch.

JOE KORT 19:42
All right, I love it. And I’ve been wanting to get to this question too. When you talk about your book, you use the term helping people gain the sheer audacity to be themselves which I find very interesting description. Would you talk about what you mean by sheer audacity to be themselves?

Rae McDaniel 19:58
Yeah, it’s To have fun word audacity, as you said in the introduction, my group practice is called practical Audacity. And I love the word audacity because it has this kind of double meaning where some people say it and it means a good thing, right and audacious person, they’re, they’re bold, they’re brave, they make choices that feel strong for them. And then you also have people who say, The audacity, the clutch their pearls, right? The audacity of that person. And I, when I’m talking about being your authentic self, it takes making those bold, strong, sometimes countercultural moves for yourself, that some people are probably going to clutch the pearls at, some people are not going to like, and so it takes a lot of guts to be who you are authentically in the world, whether that is about your sexuality, whether that is about your gender, whether that is about neuro diversity, whatever it may be, it takes guts to make choices to be you in the world that other people are not going to like, yeah, right. Judged Yes. And to be to be judged, and to be willing to have other people be wrong about you.

JOE KORT 21:22
Right. And I would imagine, and I know, you talked about this, too, that you should have a support system in place before you do this kind of thing. Because it can really take you down that kind of judgment.

Rae McDaniel 21:31
Absolutely. I always recommend that people have that support system as best as they can, before they start doing things that feel unsafe, or feel just like it would flood you, it’d be too much without somebody to call or to go over to their house or take a walk with to say, hey, I need you to remind me of who I am. And that I am lovable, and that I am valid, just as I am, that is so important. Tell

JOE KORT 22:03
us about the model you created called Gender freedom and what it is and why it’s important.

Rae McDaniel 22:08
So the gender freedom model is less of a step by step model. So there are some models of transgender identity development that are, you know, kind of step one, step two, step three, not all of them, but a lot of them. And I wanted to create a model that was less of a, you do step one, step two, step three, and more of here are some base core concepts that will help you no matter what you are trying to navigate in this arena. And so those base core concepts in the gender freedom model are play, pleasure, and possibility. Play is all about the experimenting, like we are talking about. It’s about developing a mindset that exploring gender doesn’t have to be so serious, it can be a good thing that it is fundamentally a good thing to understand more of who we are. And so let’s develop some ways that we can play with that, that don’t feel so incredibly stressful. And then pleasure. I’m a sex therapist, I love relationships, I love talking about sex, and it’s so integrated into who we are. But beyond just sex and relationships, our ability to experience pleasure in our bodies, our ability to focus on pleasure, and put that at the core of our life journeys is really important. And then possibility, you know, I talked about the 10 year and the future letter, we get stuck when we’re talking about gender, a lot of times and gender exploration in that place of centering on the suffering and how hard it is, and you know, the things that might be difficult about it without thinking about what is the point of me exploring my gender or transitioning, which is not just transition period, it is transitioning, so that it is having freedom so that you can go on and live your life and do the things that you’re meant to do. And having that focus on. What are we moving towards, versus what are we moving away from is a fundamental mindset shift that just brings so much more ease.

JOE KORT 24:28
I like it. And I like that you keep referring to the fact that remind me as you’re a sex therapist, because that’s part of the book and you said you can help people design the sex life that lights them up. We’ll explain that would you?

Rae McDaniel 24:39
Yeah, well, I think at the core of this is people truly believing that they deserve a sex life and relationship that lights them up and that it is possible for them. So I there was a concept that I was introduced to a few years ago that I just love which is called intimate justice. And it’s a researcher by the name of Sarah McClelland, who coined this term, who has doing some some research on essentially, that marginalized folks often feel like they deserve less relationship and sexual satisfaction and pleasure. And not only do they deserve less, but less is available for them. So I’ve worked with a lot of clients who think that, you know, X person or x sex life, which is not ideal, is the best that they can get. And I do a lot of work to help people imagine possibilities beyond that. So that’s a core pieces, let’s just open up the doors to say what is possible. And let’s make sure that we are bringing in the context that marginalization and multiple intersecting identities in our society, create ideas that we deserve less, and that less is available for us. And when we can name that it opens up some doors of possibility. Beyond that, I talk a lot about focusing on pleasure, and how do we build pleasure as a muscle, not only in relationship or insects, but just within our own body?

JOE KORT 26:23
One of the things and you can correct me if I’m wrong, because I want to be corrected, if I’m saying this wrong, but what I teach therapists and what I do with my own clients, is they identify as trans is we you know, we’re taught and we don’t shouldn’t ask about body parts, or what’s going on down there, that old fashioned cliche thing, but rather, I ask and teach their parts to say, how do you use your body for pleasure? What’s off limits for pleasure? You know, what’s, what is what turns you on? And how do you use it? Is that those kinds of questions that you would also ask?

Rae McDaniel 26:52
Yes, 100%, we gender bodies so much. And we make a lot of assumptions about what certain body parts can do, what our options are of ways that we can use our bodies when it comes to sex and relationships. So I love those questions which open up the doors for, as you know, you mentioned Lucy Fielding. Earlier, Lucy fielding calls this mystifying, which I love of how can we break down assumptions about our bodies in a way that opens up a lot more play when it comes to sex and intimate connections? Anything

JOE KORT 27:34
else? Before we close that, you want to make sure my listeners know about your work that we didn’t mention?

Rae McDaniel 27:40
Good question. You know, at the core of everything I do is this idea that I mentioned earlier of, we are better as a world as a society, when we all get to be our authentic selves, free from fear and free from shame. And I look at that through the lens of gender freedom. But that is a lens that is applicable to everybody. And I just want to invite any listeners here to not only think about how you can create that world for trans and non binary, folks, but how do you create that world for yourself as well? That’s

JOE KORT 28:20
awesome. Thank you so much. Where can people find you online and find your book,

Rae McDaniel 28:25
people can find gender magic, everywhere that books are sold, I always recommend grabbing from a local bookstore if you can. And then my hub is Instagram, you can find me at the ray McDaniel. That’s our A II

JOE KORT 28:39
people should definitely go to your Instagram too, because there’s so much education. And I don’t know if you hear people say this, but even about mine and other people’s people almost it’s not therapy, but it’s therapeutic and psycho educational and they get a lot from it. And I think they would get and I know they do get a lot from your Instagram as well.

Rae McDaniel 28:55
Thank you so much. Ray, it

JOE KORT 28:57
was a pleasure having you on my show. Thank you so much for coming on. And please go get their book. And hopefully, let other people know about this show because it’s such an important topic about pleasure and freedom around non binary and transgender. And you can hear more of my podcasts at Smart sex smart love.com. And you also can follow me on Twitter Tiktok, Instagram and Facebook. I’m at it’s at Dr. Joe court DRJO e k o r t. And you can also go to my website Joe court.com. Thanks, everyone for listening. Have a great day. Until next time, stay safe and healthy.