The risks and rewards of an online fetish career

00:01.79
Joe Kort
Welcome everyone to Smart Sex, Smart Love. We’re talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. My guest today is Julian Shaw, a a New Zealand-born, Australian-raised writer, director, actor, model, and fetish content creator.

00:19.66
Joe Kort
He began his filmmaking career in his teens with the documentary Darling, which won an International Film Festival Award. And his filmmaking career picked up speed through the years.

00:30.29
Joe Kort
He wrote and directed the Amazon Prime thriller Use Me, which earned global critical praise and more awards. The film became a trending title on Amazon Prime five years ago.

00:41.04
Joe Kort
In 2020, he launched a subscription site that reached the top 0.5% and shares tips and creators with creators on NSFW, for those of you that don’t know, that’s not safe for work, and then SFW, safe for work platforms.

00:56.50
Joe Kort
He now is developing a new feature about a middle-aged Hollywood character actor who reinvents himself as a sex worker. Julian also is the subject of a long-term documentary film in development by Stephen McCollum.

01:10.09
Joe Kort
Today, Julian will talk about blending mainstream film and adult content, how fetish and sexuality can be valid and valuable parts of a creative career, and why he refuses to be boxed into one category.

01:23.68
Joe Kort
Welcome, Julian.

01:25.21
Julian Shaw
Thank you, Joe. That’s a nice introduction. I think you pretty much covered everything there. And I think people can probably guess what the subscription site was that I started in 2020.

01:33.50
Joe Kort
So let’s talk about it. What was it?

01:35.24
Julian Shaw
Sure. Well, it rhymes with lonely cans. I’m not sure if we can say it.

01:41.13
Joe Kort
You can say it on here.

01:42.02
Julian Shaw
okay we we can set You can just change it on TikTok or whatever. ah Yeah, no, OnlyFans.

01:45.12
Joe Kort
Yeah.

01:46.66
Julian Shaw
And it it came off the back of that movie that I made, Used Me. The subject of that film was this real dominatrix named Sierra Lynch. And after I finished that film, man, I was broke. The pandemic hit. I was like $20,000 in debt. I didn’t know what I was going to do.

02:01.68
Julian Shaw
And my friend Sierra said, you need to try OnlyFans. I jumped on. And yeah, i was I was in the top 1% within a couple of months. And it was life-changing money. And it just made me reevaluate everything, to be honest with you. Not not that I wanted to stop acting or directing, but I was just like…

02:19.72
Julian Shaw
Oh my goodness, this is a much bigger world than i had even realized.

02:24.47
Joe Kort
Yes, right. So so tell us, so what what was the content, it if you don’t mind sharing, um that people were enjoying that put you at the top 1%? Okay. one cent

02:33.16
Julian Shaw
Yeah, well, look, I was a bit lucky. I mean, OnlyFans promoted me. And so it really was the safe for work aspect. Yeah, I was doing fitness stuff because as well as filmmaking and acting, I’ve worked in gyms. You know, I’ve been a personal trainer. I mean, I think, you know, I love to work out. So our fitness has always been a big part of my life.

02:48.55
Julian Shaw
So I was just documenting that, vlogging that. OK, some thirst traps, shirtless, oiling up, muscle flexing. Right. But no nudity, not not putting pornography on the timeline.

02:54.94
Joe Kort
Yeah.

02:58.61
Julian Shaw
um But just that alone was starting to get engagement. And that’s what blew me away because I thought OnlyFans was only hardcore pornography. Once I researched, you see there’s people working out, cooking, knitting.

03:11.16
Julian Shaw
I mean, it’s all a little bit sexy, um but there’s you know anchor content and and fitness was mine. And then to be honest, show I mean, it just goes from there. It’s not even anything you put out. It’s that people then start asking for stuff. People will slide into your DMs.

03:26.06
Julian Shaw
And I think that’s where a lot of the fetish requests started coming in once I had that hub there where people could contact me. Yeah.

03:33.58
Joe Kort
Okay. Right. Cause that’s how I stumbled upon you. um um Without me explaining to the audience of how, how I stumbled upon you, I found you on those fetish sites, right And I was like, Oh my God, you know, and then we started talking and I was telling you about my podcast, but um so then you got the request to do the kinds of things that you do on those fetish clips.

03:42.38
Julian Shaw
Yeah. Yeah.

03:51.83
Joe Kort
Do you mind sharing the kinds of things you do?

03:54.27
Julian Shaw
No, I mean, absolutely. Well, look, I mean, feet make the world go round. I mean, you know, and I can tell you, know i have ah i have a foot fetish myself.

03:59.75
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

04:03.35
Julian Shaw
You know, i mean, I’m personally heterosexual. So, you know, women’s feet is my weakness. However, ah even though my audience is almost 100 percent male,

04:14.83
Julian Shaw
It’s really identical. you know I don’t think it matters too much, the gender, the sex. It’s the core concept of a power exchange, of someone having a lot of power and the other person having minimal or zero power.

04:28.09
Julian Shaw
So you know feet are a great example of that, you know foot domination, verbal domination. And then you experiment with different genres. you know i made one with my girlfriend where she filmed me you know stepping on a pie.

04:41.89
Julian Shaw
Sitting on a cake, smushing food. That blew up. That did amazingly well. And then, you know, to be honest, I got this custom request for a farting custom. And I thought, okay, well, I’ll just, I’ll do that. you know, I’ll put that out there, put it on clips for sale, and it immediately became the highest selling clip ever.

05:00.12
Julian Shaw
And yeah, yeah, absolutely.

05:00.37
Joe Kort
A farting fetish became the highest. Wow.

05:03.84
Julian Shaw
And I looked into the data, and you might find this interesting. In terms of search, right? You know, we put in our little search terms on Pornhub or whatever it is, you know, milf, feet, giant, boobs, whatever it is, Latina.

05:13.69
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

05:17.89
Julian Shaw
Apparently, farts was 69th before the pandemic. And then by about 2021, 2022, it was now the second highest search term. So farts have had a great meteoric rise in recent years.

05:31.01
Joe Kort
ah

05:31.79
Julian Shaw
I don’t know why that is. Maybe you could extrapolate, but it’s interesting.

05:35.77
Joe Kort
No, I don’t know. What was the first?

05:39.02
Julian Shaw
It’s a great question. You know, it may have been elderly.

05:42.26
Joe Kort
Feet. I would think feet. Oh, what?

05:43.56
Julian Shaw
probably I think feet are elderly, you know, but grandma or something like that. Yeah, which which is interesting too.

05:49.43
Joe Kort
Okay.

05:50.83
Julian Shaw
You know, people worry about, you know aging out and stuff like that in the fetish world. And yet, grandma, grandpa, you know, guilt. These are evergreen search terms I’ve learned looking at the data.

06:02.92
Julian Shaw
Yeah.

06:03.18
Joe Kort
Yeah, so you’ve learned a lot as you’ve gotten into all this, right?

06:06.05
Julian Shaw
Absolutely, because you know it’s this isn’t about what I want to make or what my interests are. It’s what does the audience want? What are they prepared to pay for?

06:13.70
Joe Kort
Right.

06:13.83
Julian Shaw
And yeah, I think still that personal connection is so important. Like the biggest money makers are customs. I had a guy pay $800 for me to just hump a pillow, right?

06:24.53
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

06:25.07
Julian Shaw
ah Fully clothed, no nudity.

06:26.87
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

06:28.05
Julian Shaw
But that was worth it to him. And he was thrilled with it. I didn’t even put my face in it.

06:30.45
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

06:32.26
Julian Shaw
and And yet, but this was his particular fantasy. And I think even in a world of AI slop, and you know we’re going to be able to punch things in and and generate you know virtual content immediately. I still think there’s something about a real human being taking the time to make something for you. And I’m not sure that’s going away anytime soon.

06:50.95
Joe Kort
I agree with you. I really do. And and so so those people that don’t know, when you say custom, it means that the person has reached out to you and said, hey, I’d like to watch you do this, or could you talk to me in a certain way?

07:01.35
Joe Kort
and then they can pleasure themselves while they’re watching you on this video that you’ve prerecorded.

07:07.03
Julian Shaw
Exactly that. and And this is the beauty of fetishes, you know, I mean, as opposed to what we call vanilla ah content. And I would describe vanilla as sexual intercourse or genitalia, right?

07:18.75
Julian Shaw
Meaning more common, you know, what what most people might orient to.

07:21.27
Joe Kort
Yes.

07:22.92
Julian Shaw
I define vanilla as one category and kink as a smaller, discrete category. and And with the kink, I don’t take my clothes off. I mean, this is non-nude fetish content.

07:34.43
Julian Shaw
Like I say, it could be sitting on a pie, threatening to put a pie into someone’s face, pretending to be a giant who wears spandex, threatening to burp in someone’s face.

07:35.32
Joe Kort
I

07:44.54
Julian Shaw
So it’s really about the psychology, not any graphic nudity. And I think that’s the big difference because when people think of porn, right, they think of nudity, they think of sexual intercourse.

07:55.06
Julian Shaw
There’s this whole world that has nothing to do with that. And I’m more comfortable there too, you know,

07:57.85
Joe Kort
but you know when i was going to ask you, because when people think of sex, They do. They think of nudity. They think of intercourse or blowjobs, all the vanilla stuff, the traditional stuff. But you are engaging in sex for people that for for whom it is sex for them to watch you do all of that.

08:14.87
Joe Kort
And so are you more comfortable making the fetish porn than the other?

08:19.33
Julian Shaw
You know, I really am, Joe. And, you know, we’ve chatted about this once or twice off camera. i I have these two OnlyFans sites. There’s Julian, which is me, and then I have Sebastian Cash. He’s my alter ego.

08:32.89
Julian Shaw
I kind of don’t love the Julian one, you know, um because it is me, and it’s my name, and it’s it’s my humanity. and And in a way, people…

08:46.12
Julian Shaw
They’re buying that as a product. And I’m a little bit more uncomfortable with that because it’s really a parasocial relationship and a kind of intimacy that people want.

08:50.14
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

08:54.40
Julian Shaw
I think more even than sexual content, which, of course, people are always going to want. But I actually think they want that connection. The fetish stuff is a little bit cleaner and more transactional to me.

09:05.69
Julian Shaw
And I actually think the boundaries are much clearer. so So in a sense, with the fetish stuff, right, it could be, okay, I’m going to give you $200. It’s a three-minute video.

09:16.94
Julian Shaw
You’re going to put your feet up to the camera, and going to threaten to smoosh me with your feet. That’s it. It’s crystal clear. With the vanilla stuff, I just often feel people are trying to orient it towards meeting up or this becoming some kind of relationship.

09:31.80
Julian Shaw
So so the boundaries just aren’t there.

09:32.55
Joe Kort
oh

09:33.72
Julian Shaw
And maybe you’ve observed that with kink. People have a good, clear sense of boundaries, which is great.

09:39.34
Joe Kort
Yeah, I really, really love everything you’re saying. um And one of the things, we because we’ve become friends, and I’m so glad to, and um I’ve learned, I’ve been able to ask you more questions. Like, so you have this, um well, Julian said,

09:53.92
Joe Kort
stuff and you want to be a director and you’ve acted and we’ll talk about that too and then you’re doing this fetish stuff and um we’ve talked about maybe this is my generation i have no judgment about at all obviously but I always tell you tell you how much I worry that the fetish stuff could block you from any kind of skyrocketing in an actor way can you talk about that what you’ve come to terms with with with that

10:15.15
Julian Shaw
No, for sure. I mean, and look, you’re you’re echoing my own concerns when I started. Is this the end of the Hollywood dream, as it were?

10:24.23
Joe Kort
oh

10:24.74
Julian Shaw
I think for me, though, there is this sense that Hollywood has changed. I mean, there has been a decline in the industry. That’s factual. That’s not an opinion. I see people far more famous and experienced than me not working.

10:39.89
Julian Shaw
And so then I think, okay, Yes, there’s a risk doing this fetish stuff for sure. There’s a risk that casting directors, producers might see that and think, well, we we don’t want a guy like that in our movie or TV show.

10:53.95
Julian Shaw
But there’s a huge risk in not taking advantage of this opportunity while it’s here.

10:58.41
Joe Kort
Yeah.

10:58.41
Julian Shaw
It’s this moment in time with this online technology.

10:58.51
Joe Kort
Yeah.

11:02.05
Julian Shaw
There’s this money to be made and I love doing the work. I enjoy it. It’s creative. I have fetishes myself. It’s validating for me, right? It’s actually cathartic for me to make this content. So it’s a risk either way.

11:14.17
Julian Shaw
and And, you know, and in no way boasting, because believe me, being a filmmaker and actor, I have struggled, you know, for decades, right, with income.

11:22.45
Joe Kort
yeah

11:22.98
Julian Shaw
But I look at the money I’ve made just in the last few years, and that is, you know, pretty much what I would have got if I if i had booked a network TV show, particularly after my agent and a manager fees and the taxes.

11:23.36
Joe Kort
yeah

11:31.25
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

11:36.26
Julian Shaw
Honestly, I mean, I’ve probably done better doing this online fetish stuff and the OnlyFans stuff.

11:36.68
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

11:40.60
Julian Shaw
So You know, there’s there’s a trade off and I’m being remunerated for it. You know, I’m being paid well for it.

11:46.92
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

11:48.34
Julian Shaw
And the only other thing I would say is that I made a conscious choice to own it. And that’s part of me being here talking about it. You you know, you’re the first podcast I’ve done where i’ve opened up about this. I keep it very separate. um But I trust you. You know, you’re friend. I love you. um and And so this is kind of like owning it, you know.

12:06.32
Joe Kort
Yeah, I love it.

12:06.91
Julian Shaw
And actually, thank you. and And actually wanting to do both. And I believe it’s possible. I will still make films. I will still do mainstream acting and I will have this aspect to my life too.

12:17.16
Julian Shaw
And I think it is possible.

12:17.77
Joe Kort
And I believe that. I believe, I do believe it. When i was in I was in a school for a little bit, teaching as a professor, and um it was a sex education school and sex, you know, a training school.

12:29.03
Joe Kort
And some of the therapists were doing um sex work on the side. And i I had to come to terms with the fact, because I’m not from that generation, right? Well, first of all, ethically, you know, licensing, there’s a lot of situations that could go wrong for them.

12:43.20
Joe Kort
But I really don’t have a problem with that. at The first time I actually heard about it was a guy I know i know in West Hollywood who’s a a very good therapist, but at night he does gay porn. And he just tells his clients, if you want to see me, great, but I just want you to know you may end up seeing me that way.

12:52.10
Julian Shaw
Oh, wow.

12:56.54
Joe Kort
And, you know, if that bothers you, I’m not the right therapist for you. Bravo to him. He is a sex therapist, an educator, and so are you. I feel like we’re you’re doing it just in a different way.

13:07.45
Julian Shaw
Oh, really appreciate that coming from you. And look, I think there is a sea change where it is becoming less stigmatized. Even if you look at the Academy Awards this year, you know, Anora won Best Picture.

13:18.74
Julian Shaw
That’s a story about a sex worker. There were many actual sex workers in the cast.

13:21.52
Joe Kort
Oh.

13:22.58
Julian Shaw
Yeah, great, great film if you haven’t seen it. And I just remember that, you know, I believe Mikey Madsen won Best Actress, right? So this is as mainstream as you can get, right? You win the Oscar. and And she sort of was saying, you know, this is for all the sex workers out there. And it got a standing ovation.

13:39.24
Julian Shaw
And I thought, well, that’s… Pretty amazing.

13:41.34
Joe Kort
Wow. Yes.

13:42.33
Julian Shaw
That’s pretty amazing. And even if it’s Hollywood, maybe be thinking this is the woke thing to do or, oh, there’s some virtue signaling. You could be cynical about it. I don’t really care. Either way, that’s a massive difference to even five or 10 years ago.

13:55.74
Joe Kort
Oh my God. Yes. No, I agree with you. And even in my field, right? We used to believe in the eighties and nineties, I remember being trained this way, that sex workers and what you were doing is ah because you were traumatized as a child and you were sexually abused in some way.

14:08.02
Joe Kort
And sometimes that’s the case. But it’s not, they finally did research, good research in the 90s to say, no, no, no. People just know they’re attractive. They know that they what they like. They know what kind of people, they know what kind of money they can make.

14:19.74
Joe Kort
And that’s it. It’s not about trauma.

14:22.12
Julian Shaw
Yeah, totally. You know, and I mean, I, you know, I’ve had some traumatic events in my life, you know, around my parents’ divorce and things like that. And, you know, I’ve experienced depression and anxiety ah in the past, but but I don’t have, you know, some sexual abuse in my history or something like that. And and I agree. I think that’s such a ah cliche and people almost think, well, that’s the only reason you would do it.

14:44.47
Joe Kort
Right.

14:44.90
Julian Shaw
And as you say, I mean, the numbers just don’t bear it out. And I just saw a staggering statistic, actually, which is, you know, i believe it’s something like one in 10 American women in their 20s have an OnlyFans account or they have had it at some point.

14:59.60
Julian Shaw
So clearly, yeah see these are these are numbers showing it’s more mainstream in the way we engage with this content purchase set has really changed and and the people doing it, I mean, they’re not all victims, you know, and it’s it’s an outmoded way of thinking.

15:17.36
Julian Shaw
I do think that, yeah.

15:17.87
Joe Kort
Yeah, it’s so old school. So let’s talk about the fact that you’re straight and a lot of the guys that are buying your content obviously are gay, right?

15:26.63
Julian Shaw
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, it’s it’s go ahead.

15:28.02
Joe Kort
Right. Right.

15:29.62
Julian Shaw
Go ahead.

15:30.38
Joe Kort
Yes.

15:31.27
Julian Shaw
No, i was just going to say, I mean, women are women don’t pay. ah Women, women don’t need to. I mean,

15:37.95
Joe Kort
right

15:38.69
Julian Shaw
I’m not saying there aren’t some, but but let me be anecdotal here.

15:40.96
Joe Kort
yes

15:45.86
Julian Shaw
I mean, over the years on OnlyFans, I’ve had thousands of subscribers, right? Out of those thousands, maybe 20 of them have been females, right? So that’s kind of the numbers you’re dealing with.

16:00.07
Julian Shaw
And I would say 18 out of the 20 didn’t try to get any sexual content. They would just… immediately messaged me and say, hey, I’m trying to make more money on OnlyFans. I see you’re doing well. Can you give me tips?

16:14.76
Julian Shaw
I had one woman, ah you know, want to buy, you know, a jerk off video once ever in five years. And then I have one other female subscriber who really just wanted me to check in with her and ask how her day was and never…

16:30.41
Julian Shaw
never alluded to sexual content.

16:32.63
Joe Kort
oh

16:32.65
Julian Shaw
So anyway, that’s anecdotal. That’s my experience. However, it’s a pretty big sample size when you think I’ve had about 5,000 people, there’s been 20 women. So it’s simply supply and demand. I could say, oh, I want to make content for women.

16:45.28
Julian Shaw
It’s just not going to happen, Joe. its It’s, you know,

16:47.29
Joe Kort
Yeah. no because So what do you say to some people say, and I think you’ve told me you you may have heard this, um you’re exploiting gay men. You’re a straight guy and you’re exploiting gay men and they’re paying you for their money. What do you say to that?

17:00.15
Julian Shaw
Well, firstly, I mean, i if you if you feel that way, you’re entitled to your opinion. So I don’t feel a need to correct them. um But yeah, no, no, sure, sure.

17:08.56
Joe Kort
Let me just be clear. I don’t feel that way, just so you know, but people do.

17:12.67
Julian Shaw
Well, firstly, that’s fine. And now I’m not going to shame someone for an opinion.

17:14.58
Joe Kort
Yeah. Yeah.

17:16.42
Julian Shaw
So I’d probably say thank you for sharing that. And, you know, OK. ah But but what what I would say

17:24.80
Julian Shaw
is that I didn’t invent this. This is happening because people asked me for it. And specifically, there are men who identify as gay who have, I don’t know if you want to call it a fetish, a kink, an orientation, whatever word you want to use, a preference for a heterosexual man.

17:44.70
Julian Shaw
That is their preference. They want content about that, exploring that. They want to interact with a man who identifies as straight. So if someone is trying to shame me and saying I’m being exploitative,

17:52.82
Joe Kort
Yes. Mm-hmm.

17:57.04
Julian Shaw
I would say, okay, here’s just something for you to consider. Is it possible that you’re actually shaming this guy and his fetish? That you’re actually saying this poor gay guy is being exploited by this straight guy as though he’s some hapless victim in this. Not a guy who knows what he likes and what turns him on and is buying content that makes him happy and fulfilled.

18:17.88
Julian Shaw
Consider that. Because, you know, again, without bragging, my customers are very satisfied with what I do. and And if me being straight is a part of that, who am I to judge? I mean, frankly, I kind of have the same fetish. I am turned on by an unattainable woman.

18:32.94
Julian Shaw
the idea of an alpha female who wouldn’t even look at me that would take my money well that’s a similar concept in a way because it’s the idea of forbidden fruit so you know anything i’m doing to these guys frankly i’ve done myself i have paid money to have a dominatrix session i have done financial domination where i’m the sub i have sent money to women i have bought custom clips from from women uh that are degrading and there’s a power dynamic

18:41.96
Joe Kort
Yes.

18:59.54
Julian Shaw
To me, it is identical to what I do for these guys. So I’ve really never done anything to a guy that I haven’t done myself as the customer. So if I’m exploiting them, then I guess I’m being exploited too. And frankly, Joe, I do not feel exploited exploring my sexuality and having fun with it.

19:15.09
Julian Shaw
I do not feel exploited at all.

19:17.22
Joe Kort
i really I’m so glad to see you say this and I just think you’re paving a way and you’re one of the pioneers in this especially now that you’re even being so honest and disclosing you know personally for you that people don’t do people and people don’t try to navigate the King stuff and then the Hollywood stuff they either pick one lane or the other and I think that’s ands if you’re pioneering something here.

19:37.27
Julian Shaw
Man, I really appreciate that. And and I think um that means a lot because I sort of made the decision that, okay, I could come out about this, as it were, and it know be open about it.

19:49.60
Julian Shaw
And I’m going to offend some people, and some people aren’t going to want to work with me. However, there’s also a risk in just trying to be the clean cut boy next door archetype and try to make it in Hollywood in this wholesome archetype.

20:00.98
Joe Kort
What you could do easily, easily

20:00.99
Julian Shaw
I mean,

20:03.61
Julian Shaw
Well, but there look, there are thousands of guys that look like me and and they’re talented actors and I’ve met them. And i’m just I’m realistic about that. And that’s not to denigrate my abilities you know as an actor or anything like that.

20:13.12
Joe Kort
no

20:14.28
Julian Shaw
I’m not being self-deprecating. I’m just being honest with you. I think there’s a huge risk in not standing out and not cutting through. And if this and owning this sets me apart a bit, then great.

20:27.72
Joe Kort
I think it does. i totally do. um Now let’s talk about the Hollywood part. You’re making, we’ll talk about use me. What, what is it? And if people want to get it, like, what would they be watching?

20:38.17
Julian Shaw
Yeah, for sure. So Use Me is my first movie. I moved to the States to make it from Australia. And it is in the style of a documentary. And it’s me documenting the life of this famous humiliatrix, Sierra Lynch, who is a financial dom.

20:52.15
Julian Shaw
And in the process of making the documentary, my character falls in love with her and opens up this whole secret world. ah you know, that that this whole kind of behind the scenes controversy of what she’s actually doing with her clients. So it’s a kinky, sexy, psychological thriller.

21:08.20
Julian Shaw
I think you can watch it free on Amazon, but if you just Google it, you’ll find it. And yeah, no, look, I’m ah really proud of the film. And then it’s led to more work and another documentary that’s a spinoff from that.

21:20.32
Julian Shaw
And now I’m actually the subject of a documentary. And that’s been fascinating. You know, a good friend of mine who’s a filmmaker has been documenting myself and my now ex-girlfriend as we work together creating this fetish character. And I started doing OnlyFans.

21:36.12
Julian Shaw
And I think the idea was to document what impact this has on a relationship. you know um Unfortunately, we we broke up this year, and I guess you know you could say the work was part of that.

21:40.26
Joe Kort
Oh.

21:46.24
Julian Shaw
It it was challenging for for both of us. And so the film will explore that.

21:49.79
Joe Kort
Why? Can I ask why?

21:51.76
Julian Shaw
you know i think that well I wouldn’t want to speak for her, but but I do think that it’s tough seeing your partner being the object of desire.

22:02.86
Julian Shaw
And I think simulating these parasocial relationships, I think that’s really challenging. And we’re all human.

22:09.50
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

22:10.48
Julian Shaw
um you know And I feel for her. And and I understand that. you know We made the decision she’d help me grow it right and and sort of help with scheduling content. She’d shoot some content for me. um But it did just start to take a toll on us both.

22:23.76
Julian Shaw
And no no amount of money really fixed that. I also think we have ah irreconcilable differences. And there’s more to it than that. But the the documentary, when it comes out, will really show the reality of being a content creator on OnlyFans and being a ah fetish content creator and and how it can affect your home life. So, yeah, there’s there’s a dark side to it as well.

22:46.19
Joe Kort
Is this different than the Hollywood, middle-aged Hollywood character actor that you’re developing?

22:50.27
Julian Shaw
Yes, yes, yes. So I’m kind of doing a fetish trilogy.

22:51.91
Joe Kort
Okay.

22:53.49
Julian Shaw
Use Me is the first one. And then there’s this other one about my friend Joe, who tries to become a fetish model online. Doesn’t go very well.

22:59.85
Joe Kort
Okay.

23:00.47
Julian Shaw
And then this one about me is kind of the third film. So, you know, I just I love fetish. I’m fascinated by it. And this is my era of making films about it. So, yeah, hopefully people enjoy those all when they see them.

23:12.23
Joe Kort
I’m sure they do. I mean, obviously you’re making good money off of it. and The numbers are pretty good.

23:17.19
Julian Shaw
Yeah. And and look, at one feeds into the other, Joe. I mean, to be honest, I’m able to put all this time into making documentaries because I’ve got this money coming in. So it feeds the art. and And that’s another reason I have no regrets. you know I’m not just trying to buy a Lamborghini or something. i’m I’m fueling my art and paying for my art. And that that makes me feel deeply satisfied doing that.

23:38.35
Joe Kort
Right. You’re not just doing this for the money. You’re doing this because you’re’re you’re in it. your passion It’s personal. It’s um it’s ah it’s a service also for people.

23:46.62
Julian Shaw
Yeah, and look, I’ll go one step further because I do think people, they either think I’m being exploitative or it’s sort of cold-hearted it’s and it’s just for the money. The money’s great.

23:57.36
Julian Shaw
we all We all need money. So that’s obvious. There is more to it than that. And I would say that actually owning, being a fetish content creator and owning my own fetishes has been amazing for my mental health.

24:11.15
Julian Shaw
And helping other people embrace their fetish and let go of shame

24:16.36
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

24:17.17
Julian Shaw
has been just incredible because I was ashamed when I was a teenager and I had these kinks and I loved femdom and feet. All the stuff that turns out is quite common, by the way. But to me, I felt like a freak and an outcast and like I was the only one on earth.

24:31.10
Julian Shaw
Once I found this fetish content online, I went, oh, my God, there’s a community of people like me.

24:31.35
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

24:35.81
Julian Shaw
And um yeah, look, i’ve I’ve had people write to me and say, um you know, my fetish content is And my suggestion that they shouldn’t be ashamed and should just own it and enjoy their fetish.

24:47.49
Julian Shaw
It’s made them feel a lot better. it’s It’s actually relieved anxiety for them and that they’re in a better place now emotionally. And that’s just cool, man. You know, that’s that’s the best thing that’s come out of this.

24:58.75
Joe Kort
You actually sound almost word for word like a sex therapist, sex educator. You’re just doing it differently. The vehicle in which you’re using is just different than what we do. But it’s all the same thing we want. It’s to get rid of people’s shame, get people get people honest, people open, people um integrating this into themselves.

25:16.69
Joe Kort
Like I had to do with my own kinks and fetishes, which why is why I became a sex therapist. So we’re just doing it differently, but I feel like we’re we’re like brothers in some way.

25:24.75
Julian Shaw
Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent, you know, and do you, and do you talk about your kinks and fetishes on the show? I need to listen to a few more episodes, but yeah.

25:31.94
Joe Kort
I do not. but I always, when I do my presentations, I say, I mean, I’m very, very, very open about it, but publicly I just keep it because I think that if someone wants to work with me, it might be distracting to them.

25:43.15
Joe Kort
I might tell somebody in a and ah client therapist relationship if it will be helpful for them to know about it, but I usually just keep it in general.

25:53.47
Joe Kort
But I tell my clients, I want you to be like me. If I was at a bus stop waiting for a bus and I decided that I wanted to tell some guy next to me what I get off on, I could do it like that. It would be nothing to me because I’m not ashamed and I could give two shits about what he thinks about it.

26:09.12
Julian Shaw
Great. Yeah, no, I totally understand that. and And I think it’s wise to keep it compartmentalized. And, you know, we live in a world now, too. It’s so so sort of saturated, especially with media. um I’ve been similar in that even i’m open about it, I keep it in each lane. You know i have this fetish character.

26:24.92
Julian Shaw
I have a whole YouTube channel about rugby. You know I’m going to be streaming tonight, the all black Springboks game. People who follow that have no idea I do any of that stuff. um

26:33.62
Joe Kort
Yeah.

26:34.06
Julian Shaw
So it’s really, it’s not even that you’re trying to keep it a secret. It’s just different audiences want different things and you you don’t need to cross it over and blur the lines.

26:42.03
Joe Kort
Right. I don’t have a problem with crossing it over. i I kind of wish that I could do that because it is more me. I am more i like, I love how you are in this interview right now. You’re talking about it. You’ve crossed over. You’re being open and honest.

26:53.51
Joe Kort
I just think as a therapist, sometimes it’s like a, it’s a fine line, you know?

26:57.54
Julian Shaw
I get that. I get that. No, that’s fair. That’s fair. Yeah.

27:01.12
Joe Kort
Where do you see yourself in five years?

27:04.00
Julian Shaw
It’s a great question. I see myself really having a creative sanctuary, owning a home, being able to be a rugby YouTuber, making fetish content, directing films, you know writing novels, writing screenplays, auditioning, really doing what I’m doing now, but just, I suppose, more success, more money.

27:25.19
Julian Shaw
But what I’m looking for isn’t financial. It’s, it’s just that freedom to create art and make people happy, you know, and I kind of view it the same, you know, whether it’s a movie I’ve made people like a movie I’ve acted in that people like, or a great fetish clip that people think is just a banger that they honestly all give me a similar feeling of satisfaction.

27:31.57
Joe Kort
yeah

27:44.61
Julian Shaw
I just love to create. So man, if I just have the financial freedom to keep creating, I’ll be the happiest guy on earth. Really. That’s all I’m looking for.

27:52.97
Joe Kort
I can tell that. I can tell that. I want to say something that i wanted to say earlier, and it’s always kind of get rubs me wrong. You know, people would say, you know, you’re exploiting or people are exploiting you and you’re only doing it for the money. And that’s not true. But let’s say that was.

28:06.28
Joe Kort
How is that any different than a ah Hollywood actor? they They love the acting, but they’re doing it for the money and we’re exploiting them. We’re we’re looking at them and and objectifying them in in many ways.

28:17.65
Joe Kort
But when it becomes sexual, people’s bias kick right in.

28:21.12
Julian Shaw
Oh, no, absolutely. And look, I’m not going to name drop here, but you know I’ve met a few people in Hollywood, ah people you’d know, and I’ve heard conversations. And taking a job purely on the paycheck.

28:34.19
Julian Shaw
And by the way, more power to you. I mean, I know a guy who took something that he hated the script, but the price was right. Great. Money makes the world go round.

28:41.38
Joe Kort
Yes.

28:42.29
Julian Shaw
And and i I also view it this way, Joe.

28:42.89
Joe Kort
Yes.

28:44.21
Julian Shaw
It’s like, okay, so he did this film that he thought was shitty, big payday. Maybe now he can go and do his passion project, you know?

28:51.49
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

28:51.73
Julian Shaw
So sometimes you just have to stack the bucks and that can allow you to do the really meaningful work. But look, unfortunately, there isn’t always a correlation. You know, I mean, I don’t love advertising, but the most money I’ve ever made is acting in TV commercials.

29:06.66
Julian Shaw
That’s not artistically fulfilling that to me.

29:07.40
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

29:08.87
Julian Shaw
That’s less that is less artistically fulfilling than making a good fetish video.

29:09.14
Joe Kort
Mm-hmm.

29:13.56
Julian Shaw
um

29:13.88
Joe Kort
Yes.

29:14.61
Julian Shaw
but But look, Joe, I mean, pick any job. I mean, you know, I just went and got some fillings done for my teeth. I mean, was the dentist having the best day of their life and just loving every second? No, they were grinding through it and they were thinking about the money they were going to get from my insurance company.

29:27.85
Joe Kort
Right.

29:27.90
Julian Shaw
We are all doing that in every profession. So, you know, just doing it for the money.

29:31.03
Joe Kort
Right.

29:33.32
Julian Shaw
Who isn’t? I mean, look, I feel no need to be defensive about that. I would say that my job satisfaction, though,

29:38.35
Joe Kort
Good.

29:40.46
Julian Shaw
um is is higher than a lot of people I know. So it’s it’s not not it’s not just about the money.

29:43.42
Joe Kort
Yeah, good.

29:45.10
Julian Shaw
enjoy the work, you know.

29:46.95
Joe Kort
What final messages would you leave for the audience what that are listening? What do you want them to hear that you haven’t said so far?

29:55.51
Julian Shaw
You know, I think the message I just want to convey and reiterate is be true to yourself. There is such power in that. And it’s kind of the scariest thing. But so much good can come from it.

30:07.47
Julian Shaw
I even look at the fact we’re doing this podcast, you know and and I really enjoy your work, and it’s an honor to be on your show. And you’re having me on the show because I decided to be open about this stuff.

30:18.99
Julian Shaw
The fact that one of my favorite filmmakers, my friend Steven, is documenting me. Well, that’s because I started being open. Like beautiful things have happened because of that. So I think there’s a lot of upside.

30:31.57
Julian Shaw
and And what you’re going to do is maybe lose a few people, but they’re not really your people. And it’s actually going to bring people into your life that are your real tribe and your true community.

30:36.74
Joe Kort
Yes.

30:40.71
Julian Shaw
And that has been my experience. So just take a fearless step forward and and own who you are. And that’s the pathway to happiness. I do believe that.

30:49.38
Joe Kort
That’s such a beautiful thing to say. I i completely agree. Where can people find you on the Internet?

30:54.70
Julian Shaw
Sure. I mean, I think Instagram I’m on a lot. It’s Julian Shaw official. I do have a TikTok. It’s the same Julian Shaw official. In fact, I think my YouTube is also Julian Shaw official.

31:05.83
Julian Shaw
So, you know, just give a Google.

31:07.24
Joe Kort
All

31:08.28
Julian Shaw
But Instagram is kind of just how to stay in touch with all my acting projects, stuff like that. You can link to my naughty sites as well through there. ah But yeah, you know, just Google’s your best friend. Then you can check out all the different things I do and see if you like any of it.

31:21.50
Joe Kort
right, good. And we will definitely put it in the in the notes when people are on, all but when they can find our podcast, which is everywhere. We put this everywhere.

31:29.44
Julian Shaw
Awesome.

31:29.67
Joe Kort
So, Julian, thank you so much.

31:29.68
Julian Shaw
I appreciate that.

31:31.48
Joe Kort
Such a pleasure to have you.

31:32.90
Julian Shaw
Thank you, Joe. so glad we could finally do this and hope we do it again someday.

31:36.67
Joe Kort
I know, me too. So thank you so much for being willing to do it. You can hear more about um and my other podcast at smartsexsmartlove.com. You can also follow me on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook.

31:48.57
Joe Kort
um My handle there is at Dr. Joe Court, D-R-J-O-E-K-O-R-T. And also if you go to joecourt.com, you can go to my website and follow all the other things I do, the books I’ve written and ah the team of therapists that we have here in Royal Oak at the Center for Relationship Health.

32:04.13
Joe Kort
So thanks for listening. um And until next time, stay safe and stay healthy.

32:10.16
Joe Kort
All right.

32:11.23
Julian Shaw
Great, man. Good stuff.